Help talk:Standards

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I've written up as much as I can think too at the moment. To try and remove as much ambiguity as possible. If anyone else can think of something that needs to be addressed, please add to the page and/or the discussion here. Thanks in advance --Nanenj 08:16, 20 January 2006 (PST)

I've added a couple non-album/LP's to a couple of the artists that I've added in the past week since joining. One is an EP on the Belle & Sebastian page and the other is a compilation on the Beatles page. Any thoughts? --Nash 08:52, 23 January 2006 (PST)

Various Tidbits

There's still lots of things that need the strengthening of discussion of some sort. Most notable, recently questioning the putting the year at the end of album links. I've gotten to thinking about that and that could be a little bothersom due to when albums are re-released, there could be confusion on what year to use. Also, someone's suggested categorizing songs as well. I see no reason why we can't do this as well. Categorizing songs would give an alphabetical listing of songs, and a 'song' category index where we could see the number of actual songs lyriki knows about and not just 'good' articles. --Nanenj 00:56, 26 January 2006 (PST)

I suggest we use the original date for the actual album page and create redirect pages for identical re-released albums. As for a song category, I'm all for it. --MindlessXD 05:48, 26 January 2006 (PST)
Yeah, original date makes sense. It's easy to figure out by using amg.com (all music guide). There will be times though when we'd want to use a re-released album, such as, when they (the artist or publisher) decide to have bonus tracks at the end. If you want to input a song that was a bonus on a re-released CD, then why not have the album twice except that the difference would be at the end of the album name you will need to add "Bonus". Any thoughts? --Nash 06:58, 26 January 2006 (PST)
That, or if the album needs a different track list for re-release, we could use the One True Thing:Finally... (2004) style. --MindlessXD 07:08, 26 January 2006 (PST)
Speaking of which, I was debating whether or not to do that for Coheed and Cambria:The Second Stage Turbine Blade (2002), but the difference there was that the tracks were all in the same order, only with 3 extra songs on the end. Also, in the case of One True Thing:Finally... (2004) there is actually different cover art for the original and the re-release, although I didn't find a picture of the original cover to put on the page. In any case, I think that for re-released albums it would be better to put all the information on the page for the original release of the album. Just my take... --Evelyn 12:35, 26 January 2006 (PST)
not only re-release but albums can be released at different times in different countries. I still dislike the whole year of release thing at the end of the album, in part cause I'm a programmer and we are a lazy lot, and I really don't want to be bothered trying to figure that out so that I can add some lyrics. It also goes against my "Keep it simple" philosophy. saying that.. if thats what people want.. so be it. Bailey 12:41, 26 January 2006 (PST)
Well, a note, just to add lyrics, you don't really need to know that :). As per something you mentioned elsewhere, just to add lyrics, you need artist and songname, that's it ;) We've accomplished simplicity there, I think. One thing I've thought about is we could go back and indeed make seperate namespaces. Artist: Album: and Song: Then there would be no need for the date clarification on the end, and it would still end up looking pretty uniform. However, we'd still have slightly elongated names due to the keywords on each entry. --Nanenj 13:45, 26 January 2006 (PST)

Capitalization

What standard should we use for titling song and albums? Also, is there a way to disable case-sensitivity in the wiki so that capitalization would not be a problem? --MindlessXD 04:02, 30 January 2006 (PST)

I've been using whatever AMG has. Of course, sometimes that doesn't correspond with what is on the back of the CD. Sometimes the songs will be in all caps or all lowercase. Do we say somewhere that we should be going by the CD? But I'd swear I remember reading somewhere someone suggesting AMG, and I love that site myself so I jumped into using that. For years I was looking at CD cases while I was listening to CDs that I had owned for years, but since I got an mp3 player 2 or 3 years ago I only ever look at the CD cases when I first get the CD.
So, disabling sounds like a good idea. That would allow what Nan is saying above about all one needs "to add lyrics" is "artist and songname, that's it" without having to come back later and move someone's lyrics page in order to correct capitalization. Do we want a clearer cut standard? It seems like AMG picked one from your standard link:


"The Vitamins Are in My Fresh Brussels Sprouts 
capitalization of all words, except for internal articles, prepositions and conjunctions"


--Nash 05:06, 30 January 2006 (PST)

That's the style I've been leaning towards also. --MindlessXD 07:05, 30 January 2006 (PST)
I've actually been leaning towards capitalization of every word regardless of part of speech, simply because we might have foreign users on lyriki where english capitalization and parts of speech might be a very difficult concept. It's rather easy to do, and still looks good.
"The Vitamins Are In My Fresh Brussels Sprouts"

--Nanenj 07:35, 30 January 2006 (PST)


This ways leads madness - I have this horrid vision of people scouring the song titles, moving pages, and then deleting the redirects only to have someone come along 10 minutes later to move them to what they believe is the right form. Everybody has a way they believe the titles should be captialized. Regardless of the final decision of form. I think the following rules of thumb should apply.

  • Creator wins - If I create The Vitamins Are in My Fresh Brussels Sprouts and you believe it should be The Vitamins Are In My Fresh Brussels Sprouts you should make a redirect from your version to the pre-existing version.
  • Redirects are cheap.

Because in the end its about people finding the lyrics they want easily. Bailey 15:28, 30 January 2006 (PST)

As a side note I'm torn. I was taught that The Vitamins Are in My Fresh Brussels Sprouts as the correct form but I spent this last weekend working on a gui for lyriki (similar to User:Nanenjs ) and having it auto format the artist and song as you enter them would be awesome and the easiest way of doing that would be capitalize the first letter in each word. Bailey 15:32, 30 January 2006 (PST)
I'm sure Nanenj could make his bot auto-create redirects for pages that don't have every word capitalized. --MindlessXD 16:00, 30 January 2006 (PST)

I actually think this will be one of the only, at least I hope, cause if I did it often, I'd be burned at the stake, to pull 'calling rank'. I think I'm going to officially recommend entries be made with every first letter capitalized. It's easy, it's clear, and simple. I could do the bot thing, but, at the same time, I could spend my energy better elsewhere me thinks. I believe if it's stated clearly that we're using 'Every First Letter Is Capitalized' it's not that hard to comprehend, nor use. I'm of the mindset that some of the things we should write down as policy, and manage similarly to how Wikipedia handles things. When someone commits a violation, it's usually changed and the reason for the change is linked in the summary. In case of capitalization we could simply put 'Moved in Accordance with Lyriki:Capitalization' or some such. That would solve any dispute that could arise. If there's some very heavy disagreement with this, please do speak your mind, but, if there's no real resistance, this seems like the best idea to me. --Nanenj 16:35, 30 January 2006 (PST)

If there's a possibilty of getting case-sensitivity turned off, I'd go for that first. If that's not possible, I'd go with 'Every First Letter Is Capitalized'. --MindlessXD 16:54, 30 January 2006 (PST)
It does not seem to be a preference in current Mediawiki installations, if anyone knows to the contrary, please let us know. --Nanenj 17:33, 30 January 2006 (PST)
The best solution then might be a programmatic one, where the capitalization is enforced during page creation and thats whats used in the backend on the DB. Search requests would also be capitalized during the search process. As long as the two are syncronized there shouldn't be an issue Bailey 18:09, 31 January 2006 (PST)
For the record, I think most European titles (at least French) only capitalize the first letter of the title, like a sentence. I vote for the "who got there first", as it definitely keeps things simple. --risser 10:00, 16 February 2006 (EST)

Multiple Versions of Lyrics

I know that people seem to like having the lyrics as sung in the song, but is there a place for the booklet lyrics or live versions? For example something like Eminem:Shake_That but for booklet and actual versions. The booklet lyrics could also have there own page. --Bpot 09:46, 24 February 2006 (PST)